I'm guessing everyone who has come by this board recently, should know the story about the 8 year old girl being denied her First Communion, because she took a rice waffer instead of a wheat one, because of Celiac Disease?

I don't know if the National Media is catching more wind of it, but as mentioned in another thread, I saw a segment about it on a National news show. Today there was an article about it in the newspaper here, though it talked too much about her not being able to take wheat, instead of gluten. And calling it a rare disease, instead of naming it (did say Celiac once, lol). And today on CNN's scrolling thing on the bottom of the screen, I saw it mentioned too!

So hopefully this is doing more to help further the public's knowledge of Celiac Disease! And now, this is awful to think.. but in the back of my mind, I'm thinking it'd be even better for the Disease's awareness, if the Vatican refuses to change it's rules. Awful I know! But.. what do Media people like? Going after the powerful and human interest stories, and this certainly fits.. especially if the Vatican won't change to help this girl and others.

Umm.. I don't know if this has a point. Hopefully posting in this section was okay.. just thinking outloud about this, in the only place I know I can! And no offense meant to the Church, just thinking on how this is good for public awareness.. and heck, if people feel like it, we could write or email other news outlets, asking them to run stories on it? LOL

Oh well, don't hurt me too much! =D

I totally agree with you... this situation (however troubling) certainly raises awareness!

I also agree--I'm writing a letter to the editor of my newspaper to thank him for putting the article in--I know that sounds silly, but in a small town like mine awareness needs to be raised. I'm not as angry at the Catholics as I was in my previous posts on the subject, but I see this as an opportunity for the Catholic Diocese to become more educated on celiac disease---after all, with 1 in 133 people affected, there are plenty of Celiacs in [/B]any[B] congregation

I don't know how they're going to become educated about the severity of the problem when every article I've seen has said this is a rare disease.

I think they all just picked it up from Associated Press and AP did a lousy job of researching celiac .

I'm with you, Jill! I was so surprised when I saw this article in my local newspaper. And it took up most of the page. Rock on newspapers.

Yeah.. that's definitely a beef I have. Article in the newspaper kept calling it a rare disease, until finally.. ohh.. it's Celiac, and what, gluten? Oh I thought she couldn't have wheat!

If the story stays around long enough, would hope the press would eventually start reporting it better.

And yeah, as Jill said.. nothing against Catholics here or the church. =)

I have a question concerning this topic: Since in Italy they screen people better for celiac disease and that would mean that there are more diagnosed and practicing celiacs than in USA, what does the Catholic Church do in Italy when it comes to wheat vs. rice communion hosts? Doesn't this subject come up there too?

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debmidge - yes, I'm sure they deal with it there too, which is likely why the church has had an official stance on low-gluten and no-gluten hosts for a while. but don't forget that Europe has the CODEX standard - wheat starch where as much of the protein (gluten) that can be removed is removed. doctors in Europe believe that CODEX wheat starch IS safe for celiacs.

Right..........I forgot about that.....good point

WOW! That is very interesting. I was just reading about not being able to take communion in the kids book I got... We just had our children baptized lutheran... Although I am sure if I brought rice crackers our pastor would be happy to bless them for our family durring communion.. But we have a very kind and understanding pastor....And a small enough church that they will all know about this in a week or so and be understanding.

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Hi, all!
I was down right pissed-off , when I saw that story on the news! I live in Philly, and this was too close to home! I can't believe the nerve of that Archbishop of the Trenton Diocease. I personally sent him a letter to educate him on the dangers of offering wheat or wines to anyone who has Celiac's. And, when he quoted the Pope for the lack of acknowledgement, that just made me more upset. I didn't remember the Pope ever making statements about a rice based host as being non-acceptable. My Parish priest has no problem with it, and I'm sure there are others across the country. I just hope my letter educated him. It's sad that some people have a lack of understanding. I hope the child fights for her rights to be recognized as a Catholic. Maybe the Pope will now make an official decree.
Vicki

And think about it....if Jesus would have been born in the far east, we'd all have
rice wafers for communion!!!!!!

With all due respect, the norms of the Catholic church require unleavened wheat and water and nothing else for the host form of the Eucharist. As Catholics, we are taught that this is not a mere symbol. One could not help but question if you would ask a muslim to stop facing Mecca or some other faith to adjust their beliefs. I do not mean to minimize the challenge faced by people that have this condition but feel that it is important to point out that the Church ALWAYS makes the Eucharist available in two forms; not only in the wheat host but also in the form of wine. Receiving EITHER, as chosen by the communicant, is considered full reception of communion. We have a number of members of my church that receive only the Eucharist in the form of wine, probably because of this condition. Local dispensation from the norm is available in some instances. A number of bishops have addressed this issue. An example can be found here: http://www.rcab.org/OfficeForWorship/Pasto...iacWorship.html

May God bless you.

I know that this is not a religion duscussion but I left the Catholic Church because they are so not user friendly and unbending. The host is a blessed symbol of the body of Christ and I dont know why they just couldnt bless whatever the substitute would have been for this girl and allowd her to recieve communion.

I'm sorry you left. The Church has never, nor will it ever, teach that the Eucharist is a symbol. This a fundamental teaching of the Catholic Church. If you were ever lead to believe otherwise, I apologize as a cathecist for the poor teaching.


There is far more to the celebrating the Mass than receiving Communion. Although attending Mass weekly is an obligation, receiving Communion is not. As a matter of fact, one can become Catholic without ever receiving. It's called Spiritual Communion.


I would agree with franslaw that each religion has ideas central to it's followers. There is a reason for all we do. I highly recommend picking up a Bible and a Cathecism to help anyone interested understand.


Humbly submitted.....

I'm guessing that in Italy, since they routinely screen toddlers for celiac, it's caught before there is much damage done (UNLIKE the US! ). So perhaps in Italy, it is more of a possibility to have an occasional low-gluten host without the kind of reactions and subsequent damage that we see here in the US???

Not trying to give them an excuse or anything!

This revived thread is almost four years old. During that time, this topic has been discussed repeatedly and at great length. I think that every possible opinion has been presented more than once.

The doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church is what it is. Whether it is right or wrong is for each individual to decide for him/herself.

I don't think that prolonging the discussion here is conducive to the purpose of this board.

I read the article you attached and it still doesn't sit well with me. I understand the "low-gluten host" that the church is offering (which appears you have to go through a dozen hoops to get it served at your church) is celiac safe - I thought any gluten was not safe! Also, if you drink from the communion cup, there's always CC since you are drinking it along with the congregation (who all have a mouth full of host when they come to the cup).

I'm Catholic, but I don't receive communion. To me it's not important. I'm at church and that's what matters to me. Even if they did serve gluten-free host, I'd be worried about cc!

With much respect I would remind you that many of us are new to this board each day, and what may seem to be a much or even overly discussed issue to the 'old timers', it still new and very pertinent to the newbies.

I have only been aware that I was a Celiac for the past two months and was very dismayed to find that after being gluten-free, I was having reactions to the host and came to this board for answers, which I found in abundance. And honestly, I have spent the past 24 hours feeling very hopeless and depressed by what I read in this thread, thinking that if I was not able to partake in communion that I would be A: sinning, and B: Since the Eucharist and our beliefs surrounding it are a very large part of what separates us from many other religions, and that I believed I could not take communion, that I may as well become a Methodist.

Again, coming here today, I found pertinent answers in this very old thread and now understand why there is wheat in the host and that I can continue to be Catholic and an active part of the mass without receiving communion.

So again, I would say that no topic is ever 'too tired' to the newcomers who come here for answers.

God Bless you all.

Not that I would wish celiac disease on anyone, BUT I do wonder what would happen if the Pope was diagnosed with celiac disease....

If the pope was diagnosed with Celiac, you can be sure of one thing: It would remain a secret.

I don't know about jumping through hoops to get gluten free hosts. Our priest as soon as he was told I had Celiac went on line and researched and found gluten free hosts. He bought them and then told me what he had done. I choose not to partake of them as they are made from wheat starch and water and I won't take any chances on that. I do however partake of the blood of Christ. Our solution was to purchase a small vial that is prepared in advance of the mass and is on the altar with the rest of the chalasis. The Euchristic minister gives it to me. We have several people in our parish that have celiac and some of them take the gluten free body (hosts), some take only the blood, and some don't partake at all but come forward to receive a blessing from the ministers. We are free to receive Christ in what ever way we are comfortable with.

If any of you are looking for more info on why the Catholic Church does what it does PM me and I will put you in contact with my husband who is an ordained Deacon in the Catholic Church. He has offered to supply info and websites that can educate on this or any other subject.
Respectfully In Christ,
Yellow Rose

Fidd-Fadd:

This theory makes sense....that since here in US we are taking so long to diagnose celiac disease that by the time the disease is diagnosed, the patient is at their worst health which interferes with their ability to practice their religion fully. Very good point.

Deb

Yes--I think so too.

Dear Yellow Rose: It's great idea to post those websites. By the way, what is in the small vial that is prepared in advance of the mass and is on the altar with the rest of the chalasis?

Deb

P.S. I find that this is a very, very emotional topic (even for me a non-celiac Catholic). It's similar how the people in the restaurant topic feel - disenfranchised to some level or degree. Maybe some Catholic celiac people say that they don't feel disenfranchised because they are contented with the church's low-gluten host but others feel that the low-gluten host just isn't enough for them. My feeling is that rather than argue the topic here, the push should be to your parish, Archbishop and even perhaps to the Cardinals in Rome so that they review this every so often - it makes me think of Luke 18: 2-5.

I registered my son this year for CCD classes at our church. I explained at this time about his Celiac Disease and that he cannot be fed anything in class. The head of the program brought up the host as he will be making his communion next year. She said that for only the first communion he would need a host that contains some wheat. She said that they would order one that contain 0.002% gluten which is concidered safe for Celiacs. It is the same amount of gluten that is in Rice Dreams Rice Milk and it is labeled as gluten free. She said after that it does not have to contain any gluten. I understand that for those who are extremely sensitive this might still be a problem, but my son is not overly sensitive so I don't forsee a problem. After his first communion I will buy completely gluten free ones.

Nicole

Nicole, it's not just because it's his first communion ... he will need those hosts throughout .... hopefully they won't be a problem. If they are, he can receive the cup only. I usually sit in the front to avoid cc.

Carla,
Maybe I misunderstood, but I really thought she said it was just for the first communion. Then why do they even make gluten free ones if they cannot be used? At my aunt's church they have a child with celiac and they allow her to use a gluten free one but maybe they are bending the rules.

Nicole

*

Other denominations can use gluten-free hosts .... they are not made by the Catholic Church itself.

Here's the official position of the Church. http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/celiasprue.shtml Not everyone follows the rules .... sometimes, unfortunately, not even priests. A non-wheat host cannot be consecrated, so even if a priest breaks this rule, the person receiving it is not receiving the Body of Christ.

I don't think that there is any flexibility in the Roman Catholic Church's position on this. If you want to send your comments to the only person who can make a difference, send them to Pope Benedict at: benedictxvi@vatican.va I am not m making this up.

Yes, I'm all for keeping traditions but COME THE &^%$ ON times are changing and we need to adjust to it. If people are allergic, find a replacement, it's NOT brain surgery!!! Sometimes we have to tweek things. People are so terrified of change, get over it!
Yes, it's a very holy tradition but denying people communion because they are allergic!? ARE WE HEARING OURSELVES!??!!? You are saying to kids "you can't have this and you aren't normal or holy cause you are allergic to gluten and are diseased!"

Here is my big question;
If you are a recovering alcoholic and your church serves wine, do you drink the wine or is there another option.....say grape juice?!


And for the person who said that this has been discussed over and over....get over yourself! it happens all the time on these boards! Like the topic of what kind of flour to use or what do you feel when you get glutened? But just because it's about church we can't discuss it over and over? are you hearing yourself?

Yes, I know I'm "offending" people but for crying out loud this is retarded!
THIS MEDIA ATTENTION IS GREAT GREAT GREAT FOR US!!! (yes, also bugs me that they call it rare....have you been to the grocery store lately? there is gluten-free pasta at most of them now....I don't call that rare...it's as rare as a lactos intollerant thing!)

This question is answered in the Church document I posted.

I'm not addressing the other comments as this is not a religious forum and there is a bad history here when religious debates are started. We're not questioning WHY the Church is how it is, but HOW to live as a Celiac in the Catholic Church. As Peter said, feel free to write the Pope.

For reasons unclear to me, I find it absolutely hysterical that you can email the Pope. Something about the collision of antiquity drenched tradition and modern instantaneous flightiness.

Maybe I'll wait until I can IM him.

HOLY COW, melrob, don't hold back or anything.

I just reread the site that Carla posted. Perhaps someone can clarify something for me. If the Catholic church states that the communion wafer must contain wheat, why couldn't wafers made with rice and (certified gluten-free) wheat grass? or (certified gluten-free) wheat starch? If wheat is the deciding factor, put it in, just without the gluten.

I am a former Pastafarian. That church was totally unreasonable in it's wheat demands on the congregation.

[quote name='melrobsings' date='Jan 21 2008, 03:15 PM' post='387576']

Yes, it's a very holy tradition but denying people communion because they are allergic!? ARE WE HEARING OURSELVES!??!!? You are saying to kids "you can't have this and you aren't normal or holy cause you are allergic to gluten and are diseased!"

Did you read the Church documents on this issue? Allowances have been made. A solution has been found. Christ is fully present under both species. Body and blood together or alone ARE FULL COMMUNION! One does not need to receive both to receive Communion. One does not have to receive Communion under both species each week! One does not have to receive AT ALL each week.

Why do moderators keep a close eye on these conversations? Because they can go downhill awfully quick. I found your comments extraordinarily hurtful and insulting to my faith. You want me to "get over" something I hold not "very holy" but sacred. You want to "tweak" Jesus in the Eucharist? No, a thousand times no. It is as Christ Himself directed. That it will remain.

I have a compromise to this situation....anyone interested should send me Message and I'll explain it. It's not offensive and I am sincere and I'd post it here, but I am just too scared to share my feelings on this matter.

P.S. I wonder if the mother of the child who was involved in the Communion case ever visits this message board.....

It can only be wheat and water. The wheat must have all the components of wheat, so must have gluten ..... the approved wafers have the smallest amount of gluten possible ... they're made primarily from gluten-free wheat starch.

I imagine in Europe there is not much of a debate because of the Codex Standards .... they already accept a small amount of gluten as okay.

Anyway, it can't have more than wheat and water. Go to the sister's website .... it's interesting how they came up with the recipe.

when I was little and my mom made us go to church, we'd sneak in the back and steal the hosts. Does this mean I've probably eaten enough already that I could do without ever going to communion?

Ahhhh, but did you go to Confession before you chowed down? I think "stealing" the hosts eliminated the effects of each..

oh yeah.....

Almost 4 years and the topic is still going strong, wow!

I just completed a religious studies class in college... and I wrote a 12 page thesis on this very subject. I got an A.

And, I won't further comment because I don't want to get into the debate. But, Carla is spot on.

she usually is. One of the few people whom I just believe when they say something.

They probably weren't consecrated.


Thanks.




And I always want to read your posts because they are some of the wittiest on the board! It might be something I'm totally not interested in, but Jestgar posted ... let's get a good laugh!

yep, thought this would happen....
first off: I"m not here to bash anyone!!! I think we should sit back (yes I read the article and there were many that I read) and think about the message we are sending to kids.
I got Celiac as an adult THANK GOD!!! I could NEVER imagine having it as a kid. I wasn't really in the cool group in early elementary school, not to mention as a toddler/youngin' my parents were in the circus and we were always eating on the road and eating mac and cheese and easy to cook food. Having parents that ate on the road with a kid that's a celiac, not to mention that means no circus peanuts or pretzels!??! no thanks!
but LISTEN to the message we are sending the kids when they get denied communion. yes, i know it's sacred, i believe that too, but I don't understand the big deal between wheat and rice, it's the UNDERSTANDING of the communion that is the most important, not the wine, or grape juice or whatever cracker you have. We are reading into it too much and missing the point of what it's ABOUT.