Three times in the past month my husband has threatened me with wheat contamination! He says that he will hide bread crumbs or wheat flour in my food to "punish" me. I think he does this to control me and upset me. He knows that very little that he can say or do will upset me (I am a very mellow person, while he is wildly mercurial), but he has unfortunately discovered that threatening me in this way will never fail to upset me.
Now, because I don't keep the house perfectly spotless at all times (no, most of the time is NOT good enough for him), he says that he won't be careful about wheat. I was out job prospecting all morning while he was at home with our daughter, and came home to this: There was a slight mess in the kitchen (three pans left over from dinner the night before, and the counters needed to be wiped down), so he intentionally contaminated the counter with wheat pasta and left a huge wheat pasta mess all over the dining room table and floor. "It was a mess anyways," he said. For goodness sake, it wasn't enough that I did all the rest of the dishes, the night before, not to mention that I cooked him dinner. And that I do all the dishes and all the cooking (and all the childcare) every day, regardless of whether I worked all day or not.
Recently, he threatened to contaminate my food on purpose to see what would happen to me, as an "experiment."
I waited a day, until we had both calmed down, and then I calmly confronted him about his gluten threats and told him that it is unacceptable for him to threaten my health under any circumstances, that this amounted to threatened physical abuse. He immediately got very angry and told me that I'm a "crazy f*ing b*tch" and my gluten intolerance is "all in your head." This, when our 2-year-old daughter was standing right next to him. Then he laughed, probably because he has seen enough of my illness to know that that is not true. What the heck am I supposed to do with this man? I don't believe in divorce, and he doesn't believe in counseling.
GRRRR!
his behavior IS abusive. at the least, I would suggest that YOU go to counseling, and look into how you can cope with it. it's already teaching your child about tolerating abuse.
I'm sorry that you are in a position where you feel that you have to put up with this sort of behavior, no one should have to.
I'm sorry that you are in a position where you feel that you have to put up with this sort of behavior, no one should have to.
Oh my gosh, I am so sorry you have to go through that! That is absolutely horrible. I am hoping for you and your child's sake that that is not the "norm" and that he doesn't always talk to you like that. However, I know it does happen, and if you need to talk, please feel free to pm me.
Take care.
Gina
Take care.
Gina
Wow. That is definately abuse. I agree that counseling and/or other steps are necessary. You do not deserve to be treated that way. You aren't his possession, employee, or slave. He has more than crossed the line from being insensitive.
I agree with Tiffany- his behavior is abusive. Name calling and threats are absolutely abuse, and the fact that he did it in front of your child... that's bad, real bad. His obsessiveness about you having the house spotless 100% of the time is also symptomatic of his problem. To call you horrible names and threaten you, and then laugh... to me, this is unbalanced.
Is your stance against divorce for religious reasons? If so (or even if not) is there someone in your church you can council with about this situation?
And... maybe I'm crossing a line here, but... There all kinds of reasons for divorce. I think many divorced couples could have made it, had they kept at it, had they considered the marriage worth fighting for. But then other divorces are absolutely necessary, for the mental and physical health of one or both people involved!
No one deserves to be belittled, threatened, and called foul names!
-Sarah
Is your stance against divorce for religious reasons? If so (or even if not) is there someone in your church you can council with about this situation?
And... maybe I'm crossing a line here, but... There all kinds of reasons for divorce. I think many divorced couples could have made it, had they kept at it, had they considered the marriage worth fighting for. But then other divorces are absolutely necessary, for the mental and physical health of one or both people involved!
No one deserves to be belittled, threatened, and called foul names!
-Sarah
Honestly?
He won't change and you should leave him. Quickly. With your child. If he were to do that intentionally, it would be the same as assaulting you with his hands. That said, try therapy, but I don't think it would work. He's poison the same way gluten is. Sorry to be so blunt, but his behavior is simply ridiculous and intolerable. It is simply not safe to stay in a relationship like that, whether you "agree" with divorce or not.
I hope things improve for you.
He won't change and you should leave him. Quickly. With your child. If he were to do that intentionally, it would be the same as assaulting you with his hands. That said, try therapy, but I don't think it would work. He's poison the same way gluten is. Sorry to be so blunt, but his behavior is simply ridiculous and intolerable. It is simply not safe to stay in a relationship like that, whether you "agree" with divorce or not.
I hope things improve for you.
This is a seriously abusive situation. I agree with the post above.
Leave now and take your daughter with you, before either of you experience physical harm to go along with the emotional harm that you have already suffered. It will only go downhill from here. LEAVE NOW. Counseling will only work if the parties are receptive. Divorce or not, you can not stay where you are. Perhaps after a period of separation, his attitude toward joint counseling will change.
You may want to talk about this privately; I'm sending a private message with my contact information.
I'm here if you want to talk.
Peter
Leave now and take your daughter with you, before either of you experience physical harm to go along with the emotional harm that you have already suffered. It will only go downhill from here. LEAVE NOW. Counseling will only work if the parties are receptive. Divorce or not, you can not stay where you are. Perhaps after a period of separation, his attitude toward joint counseling will change.
You may want to talk about this privately; I'm sending a private message with my contact information.
I'm here if you want to talk.
Peter
You can not stay in such an unhealthy environment. If he won't get help with counseling, you need to seriously consider what you daughter is being exposed to - what will she consider to be OK in terms of how people treat each other.
My aunt was verbally and psychologically abused - something that I witnessed and we only visited a few times. I never knew if there was any physical abuse but I will say that my uncle had the potential for it. After her children were grown, she got a divorce. When she told her kids, they were livid. And the reason why . . . because she waited so long. She thought she was doing the right thing by staying until the children were grown. Their take on it was that it was miserable for everyone.
You should go for counseling with or without him just to help you think through some of your choices.
Good Luck.
My aunt was verbally and psychologically abused - something that I witnessed and we only visited a few times. I never knew if there was any physical abuse but I will say that my uncle had the potential for it. After her children were grown, she got a divorce. When she told her kids, they were livid. And the reason why . . . because she waited so long. She thought she was doing the right thing by staying until the children were grown. Their take on it was that it was miserable for everyone.
You should go for counseling with or without him just to help you think through some of your choices.
Good Luck.
I know this might be very hard to hear, but even if your husband is not "physically" abusive he IS emotionally/verbally abusive towards you and that is just as bad. Even if your gluten intolerance was "all in your head" (which I am sure it is not) he still would not have the right to come down on you and cuss in front of your child. My suggestion (and mine alone - take it or leave it) would be to get out of the house for awhile. Let him cook dinner, clean up after dinner and take care of the rest of the house maybe then he will appreciate you for YOU and everything you do for him. Believe me YOU DO NOT DESERVE this treatment from anyone, but especially not fromm your husband and your child needs to be the most important thing right now...what if she has Celiac? Will he treat her the same way? I hope not.
My heart is with you.
My heart is with you.
Lightening Bolt,
My heart goes out to you. First, I hope that nothing I say makes you sad or upsets you further because I -- along with all the other posters -- only wish for your health and safety.
Your hubby is not insensitive, he's abusive. From what I've seen, your spouse fits all the characteristics of a spouse-abuser, except that he hasn't (I hope) been physically violent. Although, research shows, the verbal abuse many times turns into physical abuse or goes right to murder. Expecting perfection in housekeeping or anything else is a control issue and is abuse. So is the threat about wheat contamination.
I don't believe in divorce either but you must take steps to protect both yourself and your daughter. Options include going to a counselor or minister by yourself for help or leaving with your daughter and going to a relative or friend's house or a women's shelter. If you go to a minister who knows both you and your husband, I would hope that he/she would give you good advice but there are some ministers who agree with the husband in this type of case. If you have a minister like that, don't believe him/her.
If you leave, do not return to the abuser unless he attends and COMPLETES an anger management class.
For online help, try the National Domestic Violence Helpline at www.ndvh.org or 1-800-799-7233. If your spouse can access your computer, I would disable any automatic passwords or signons to this site and find other ways to keep him from your correspondence. The most dangerous time for a victim is when he/she is trying to leave the abuser.
Please, I hope you have a real-life friend or family member to help you and help you get safe. You have my prayers.
My heart goes out to you. First, I hope that nothing I say makes you sad or upsets you further because I -- along with all the other posters -- only wish for your health and safety.
Your hubby is not insensitive, he's abusive. From what I've seen, your spouse fits all the characteristics of a spouse-abuser, except that he hasn't (I hope) been physically violent. Although, research shows, the verbal abuse many times turns into physical abuse or goes right to murder. Expecting perfection in housekeeping or anything else is a control issue and is abuse. So is the threat about wheat contamination.
I don't believe in divorce either but you must take steps to protect both yourself and your daughter. Options include going to a counselor or minister by yourself for help or leaving with your daughter and going to a relative or friend's house or a women's shelter. If you go to a minister who knows both you and your husband, I would hope that he/she would give you good advice but there are some ministers who agree with the husband in this type of case. If you have a minister like that, don't believe him/her.
If you leave, do not return to the abuser unless he attends and COMPLETES an anger management class.
For online help, try the National Domestic Violence Helpline at www.ndvh.org or 1-800-799-7233. If your spouse can access your computer, I would disable any automatic passwords or signons to this site and find other ways to keep him from your correspondence. The most dangerous time for a victim is when he/she is trying to leave the abuser.
Please, I hope you have a real-life friend or family member to help you and help you get safe. You have my prayers.
Knowing first hand how difficult it is to leave an abusive relationship, I won't question your reasons for staying BUT that said, perhaps YOU need to question your reasons for staying. He is threatening your health.... I am not sure that "murder by wheat" would stand up in court but you must know that the outcome of injested wheat can be colon cancer as well as other serious illnesses.... I am a survivor of that cancer and a number of other "wheat" related ailments. A threat is a threat... Please, as a survivor of an abusive relationship get some help. You are the victim and you need help both emotional and psychological help. Getting well physically requires you ON A DAILY basis to make decisions about gluten. Getting well emotionally will require the same kind of determination... You need to make some decisions about your relationship with your husband. It is time to do the some soul searching and decide whether being "contaminated" with an abuser is worth the risk. It took me many years to decide that my mental health was as important as my physical health.... and it took me many years to realize that I did not have to be a victim of abuse any longer! The damage of physical abuse is out in the open for all to see but the damage done to your soul by an emotional abuser is just as deadly. Please ask yourself why you stay and PLEASE seek some help!
I guess that since you are putting this out in public, you are seeking advise.... there is lots of that here and if you look at it, NO ONE supports your husband's point of view and ALL suggest that you seek help. If you are looking for support, there are lots of people here supporting you but it is up to you to make a decision about your situation. Sometimes, it is easier to just vent than to actually make the decision to change the situation. I hope that you will know when it is time to stop venting and start taking action.
Cyberprof had some very good advice. I hope that you are able to take a look at it and make some positive decisions about your situation.
I guess that since you are putting this out in public, you are seeking advise.... there is lots of that here and if you look at it, NO ONE supports your husband's point of view and ALL suggest that you seek help. If you are looking for support, there are lots of people here supporting you but it is up to you to make a decision about your situation. Sometimes, it is easier to just vent than to actually make the decision to change the situation. I hope that you will know when it is time to stop venting and start taking action.
Cyberprof had some very good advice. I hope that you are able to take a look at it and make some positive decisions about your situation.
This is absolutely an abusive situation. You have to do what's best for you and your daughter. Do you really want her growing up in this environment? I agree with the other posters - you need to do something like going to counseling or getting out of the house.
I don't believe in divorce, either--except in situations like yours. This man is seriously abusive, and I wouldn't think you would want your daughter to grow up thinking that this is what a marriage should--or could--be like. You are better off alone than with a man like him, and your daughter is better off without a father than with one like him. In my eyes, your husband ended the marriage the moment he threatened you.
You MUST get yourself away from this monster as soon as possible, before he harms you or your daughter. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR HIM TO THREATEN YOU OR SWEAR AT YOU.
PLEASE GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN. If it isn't gluten, it'll be something even more deadly.
And you'd better make sure he can't read this thread--if you signed up for email notification of replies to this thread, please change that immediately. If he has access to your email, he might read this and take his anger out on you.
You need to start documenting every threat. I think it is important that he not ever have unsupervised custody of your daughter.
You MUST get yourself away from this monster as soon as possible, before he harms you or your daughter. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR HIM TO THREATEN YOU OR SWEAR AT YOU.
PLEASE GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN. If it isn't gluten, it'll be something even more deadly.
And you'd better make sure he can't read this thread--if you signed up for email notification of replies to this thread, please change that immediately. If he has access to your email, he might read this and take his anger out on you.
You need to start documenting every threat. I think it is important that he not ever have unsupervised custody of your daughter.
I am truly sorry you have to deal with this right now, but I agree you need to be in a safe space.
His passive-aggressive and aggressive actions are posing risks to your physical health, not to mention that of your emotional and mental well being.
You need to remove yourself from this situation. You cannot compromise your health, nor that of your child.
You are not blowing this out of proportions, this is not in your head.
Please feel free to pm me if I can be of any help.
His passive-aggressive and aggressive actions are posing risks to your physical health, not to mention that of your emotional and mental well being.
You need to remove yourself from this situation. You cannot compromise your health, nor that of your child.
You are not blowing this out of proportions, this is not in your head.
Please feel free to pm me if I can be of any help.
Contact your local women's shelter, call the abuse hotline. You might not know it but you are in danger as is your child.
I suffered at the hands of an abusive father for years. He abused my mother, me, and my brother. He hit us, but what hurt the worst was the verbal abuse. He was also an alcoholic and had multiple affairs.
About 6 years ago, my mother finally got up the nerve to leave him. He told her that he had Parkinson's and she had to stay and take care of him because he was sick. She talked to his doctor and found out that he had been diagnosed more than 5 years previously, and just hadn't told anyone. Since he was almost always drunk or hung over, no one really noticed how shaky he always was.
Well, my mom didn't leave him, and from what I hear, he is deteriorating quickly. He uses a 4-prong cane to get around, and will probably be using a walker by the end of the year. He is only 63 years old. Unfortunately for her, Parkinson's isn't fatal. She may very well spend the next 15 years taking care of him and changing his diapers. I can only hope that something else kills him before she is too old to be able to live her life for herself.
I remember telling her when I was 7 years old that she should leave him because he was hurting all of us. She said that she had to stay with him until my brother and I were grown up because it was always better for a child to grow up with 2 parents who were together. As far as I know, she didn't have any religious reasons for staying with him, she was staying because she thought she was doing what was best for us.
Keep this in mind, it is NEVER better to subject your child to abuse (even second-hand) than to leave. Also, knowing how ready he is to threaten you, do you feel comfortable leaving your child alone with him? Would you be able/willing to stand up to him if he threatened her?
We don't know your personal reasons for not believing in divorce. But, please, take a look at this website.
About 6 years ago, my mother finally got up the nerve to leave him. He told her that he had Parkinson's and she had to stay and take care of him because he was sick. She talked to his doctor and found out that he had been diagnosed more than 5 years previously, and just hadn't told anyone. Since he was almost always drunk or hung over, no one really noticed how shaky he always was.
Well, my mom didn't leave him, and from what I hear, he is deteriorating quickly. He uses a 4-prong cane to get around, and will probably be using a walker by the end of the year. He is only 63 years old. Unfortunately for her, Parkinson's isn't fatal. She may very well spend the next 15 years taking care of him and changing his diapers. I can only hope that something else kills him before she is too old to be able to live her life for herself.
I remember telling her when I was 7 years old that she should leave him because he was hurting all of us. She said that she had to stay with him until my brother and I were grown up because it was always better for a child to grow up with 2 parents who were together. As far as I know, she didn't have any religious reasons for staying with him, she was staying because she thought she was doing what was best for us.
Keep this in mind, it is NEVER better to subject your child to abuse (even second-hand) than to leave. Also, knowing how ready he is to threaten you, do you feel comfortable leaving your child alone with him? Would you be able/willing to stand up to him if he threatened her?
We don't know your personal reasons for not believing in divorce. But, please, take a look at this website.
Hello, Lightning bolt
I'm worried about you, along with other people on the site. How are you doing now?
I'm worried about you, along with other people on the site. How are you doing now?
hi there lightning bolt. i'm new here and maybe it's not my place to say, but i never seem to be good at minding my tongue. 
when i was growing up, my father was emotionally manipulative and abusive. verbally, and occasionally physically. it got worse as i got older. sometimes it was only rage towards my mother and sometimes it was turned on me.
my mom would tell me that she was going to leave and i would get so happy that we would finally be away from all the hurt. the fear... the anger and the dysfunction. she never did leave and get me out of there.
it took me 10 years of therapy to undo the hurt and the mess in my head from growing up and feeling inferior, unloved and ineffectual. 10 years.
what your husband is doing is definitely abuse. you have your reasons and we all have to respect you... but even though i don't know you i am completely sure that you deserve so much more... and i have NO doubt that your daughter does. girls learn to choose men based on what they witness growing up.
hang in there... and keep us posted.
when i was growing up, my father was emotionally manipulative and abusive. verbally, and occasionally physically. it got worse as i got older. sometimes it was only rage towards my mother and sometimes it was turned on me.
my mom would tell me that she was going to leave and i would get so happy that we would finally be away from all the hurt. the fear... the anger and the dysfunction. she never did leave and get me out of there.
it took me 10 years of therapy to undo the hurt and the mess in my head from growing up and feeling inferior, unloved and ineffectual. 10 years.
what your husband is doing is definitely abuse. you have your reasons and we all have to respect you... but even though i don't know you i am completely sure that you deserve so much more... and i have NO doubt that your daughter does. girls learn to choose men based on what they witness growing up.
hang in there... and keep us posted.
QUOTE(Ridgewalker @ Oct 10 2007, 05:55 PM) 
I agree with Tiffany- his behavior is abusive. Name calling and threats are absolutely abuse, and the fact that he did it in front of your child... that's bad, real bad. His obsessiveness about you having the house spotless 100% of the time is also symptomatic of his problem. To call you horrible names and threaten you, and then laugh... to me, this is unbalanced.
Is your stance against divorce for religious reasons? If so (or even if not) is there someone in your church you can council with about this situation?
And... maybe I'm crossing a line here, but... There all kinds of reasons for divorce. I think many divorced couples could have made it, had they kept at it, had they considered the marriage worth fighting for. But then other divorces are absolutely necessary, for the mental and physical health of one or both people involved!
No one deserves to be belittled, threatened, and called foul names!
-Sarah
Is your stance against divorce for religious reasons? If so (or even if not) is there someone in your church you can council with about this situation?
And... maybe I'm crossing a line here, but... There all kinds of reasons for divorce. I think many divorced couples could have made it, had they kept at it, had they considered the marriage worth fighting for. But then other divorces are absolutely necessary, for the mental and physical health of one or both people involved!
No one deserves to be belittled, threatened, and called foul names!
-Sarah
I would even take it a step further and say that not only is he abusing you, but your daughter as well by doing that in front of her.
Abuse is a deal-breaker, in my book.
Weather you believe in divorce or not this is your life you are talking about. I don’t know how serious the matter is; but you do. You should be with someone who respects you and will do anything within his power to keep you safe. No offense but your husband is very immature. This goes back to grade school. If he knows it bothers you and he is trying to get to you, then he will use it. Try not to act worried about it, it might be all talk. If he really does cross the line then this is a very serious issue that needs to be addressed.
Wow, for the sake of your child don't stay in a marriage where there is abuse. Do you want to model that that sort of thing is acceptable to her? She'll end up in the same or worse!
Wow, thank you everyone for your concern. I'm fine, really. They are just threats. Still not okay, I know, but he's only like that about 5% of the time, and most of the time he's a really good dad. My daughter loves him and he is good with her most of the time. It would be really hard for me to walk away from that.
I'm so glad you are okay!
What is your cutoff for when abuse is not okay? 10% of the time? 50% of the time?
It's so easy to look the other way, find the positive and emphasize that--but what is the limit for the really really bad stuff (like abuse)?
In my book, there is NO acceptable amount for that kind of behavior. And there are not excuses.
You say that your husband is good with your daughter "most of the time?" So that mean that there are times when he is NOT good with her?
Is she going to come to you someday and say, "Mommy, why did you put me in a situation with him where he hurt me? Why did you let this happen?"
Good husbands do not threaten their wives, swear at them, or call them names. EVER.
Good fathers are NEVER not good with their daughters. EVER.
Yes, it is going to be very hard for you to walk away from that. But it will be harder for your daughter to see her mother being hurt by her father. And reading between the lines, it sounds like your husband occasionally loses control where your daughter is concerned. Trust me, it is harder for your daughter to grow up living with an abusive father than it would be for you to leave him.
But you need to start thinking about protecting yourself legally before you leave him. You need to see a lawyer NOW, without your husband knowing, or he will turn the tables on you and get custody.
2 friends of mine have gone through this, and a 3rd is just going through this now. Men like this are surprisingly common. (And 2 of those men are physicians!) In each case, it took the child getting hurt before the mom "woke up" and got herself and the children out.
In each case, it started like you describe, with the husband being a total jerk 5% of the time. In each case, no matter what the wife tried, it didn't get better--it got worse. Much, much worse. In one case, my friend was poisoned before she realized how bad it could be. She still doesn't know how or why.
One of them moved across the country when her husband got a new job. One month after they'd moved, on New Year's Eve, he told her he was leaving her for another woman, and that he wanted custody. This, after years of the same kind of abuse you are describing. Luckily, she had documented the abuse, and the school district had noticed some of it, so not only did he not get custody, but one of their daughters actually refuses to see him.
Andeach one of my friends told me that this is SO common (NOT normal, just common) that there ARE many organizations set up across the country to help women like you.
What is your cutoff for when abuse is not okay? 10% of the time? 50% of the time?
It's so easy to look the other way, find the positive and emphasize that--but what is the limit for the really really bad stuff (like abuse)?
In my book, there is NO acceptable amount for that kind of behavior. And there are not excuses.
You say that your husband is good with your daughter "most of the time?" So that mean that there are times when he is NOT good with her?
Is she going to come to you someday and say, "Mommy, why did you put me in a situation with him where he hurt me? Why did you let this happen?"
Good husbands do not threaten their wives, swear at them, or call them names. EVER.
Good fathers are NEVER not good with their daughters. EVER.
Yes, it is going to be very hard for you to walk away from that. But it will be harder for your daughter to see her mother being hurt by her father. And reading between the lines, it sounds like your husband occasionally loses control where your daughter is concerned. Trust me, it is harder for your daughter to grow up living with an abusive father than it would be for you to leave him.
But you need to start thinking about protecting yourself legally before you leave him. You need to see a lawyer NOW, without your husband knowing, or he will turn the tables on you and get custody.
2 friends of mine have gone through this, and a 3rd is just going through this now. Men like this are surprisingly common. (And 2 of those men are physicians!) In each case, it took the child getting hurt before the mom "woke up" and got herself and the children out.
In each case, it started like you describe, with the husband being a total jerk 5% of the time. In each case, no matter what the wife tried, it didn't get better--it got worse. Much, much worse. In one case, my friend was poisoned before she realized how bad it could be. She still doesn't know how or why.
One of them moved across the country when her husband got a new job. One month after they'd moved, on New Year's Eve, he told her he was leaving her for another woman, and that he wanted custody. This, after years of the same kind of abuse you are describing. Luckily, she had documented the abuse, and the school district had noticed some of it, so not only did he not get custody, but one of their daughters actually refuses to see him.
Andeach one of my friends told me that this is SO common (NOT normal, just common) that there ARE many organizations set up across the country to help women like you.
QUOTE (p38lightningbolt @ Oct 13 2007, 12:51 PM)
Wow, thank you everyone for your concern. I'm fine, really. They are just threats. Still not okay, I know, but he's only like that about 5% of the time, and most of the time he's a really good dad. My daughter loves him and he is good with her most of the time. It would be really hard for me to walk away from that.
i'm so glad to see you back here and posting. it's good to see you are fine. i know you may have your reasons to stay, but please, try to think about what this may do to your daughter down the road.
none of us are in your position and i refuse to judge, but i know that in my own personal experience both with my father and with my ex that ANY amount of threat or aggression in any measure is NOT acceptable and should not be tolerated. AND it always gets worse.
like i said, it took me 10 years to sort through my grief and pain. 10 years of trying to find a jerk like my dad to love me -- to give me the love he didn't -- instead of going and finding a kind and sweet and sensitive guy... like my hubby. 10 years is a long time to spend digging yourself out of a hole that you didn't dig in the first place.
be strong and good luck. hopefully he will pull his head out of his rear and never treat you that way again. you deserve better.
my dad never physically abused me. it was all verbal/emotional. things were often not good enough for him, and meeting his expectations (regardless of the fact they were neither stated nor attainable) was all that mattered. it has taken years (I'm 29) to best put into perspective the full effect that has had on me, and to realize that there is absolutely no way to erase the baggage that it has left me carrying. all I can do is use those lessons in my life to my advantage now. but even so, those fears, those concerns will always be with me, will always be a challenge, and will always be something that I have to work through that other people don't. just because of 'threats'.
Thanks again everyone. I really do appreciate everyone's advice. I did remove the auto password complete from my browser. Frankly, I've been really surprised at the response. You don't know me at all, but so many seem to really care.
To answer some questions, I am not religious, although I did attend a very conservative Christian school for 11 years. I have had some counseling, but not for a few months now. Things were going okay until we lost a renter, the housing market crashed, and my husbands industry slowed down significantly.
When I say that my husband is a good father most of the time, I mean to say that he loves our daughter, and she loves him. He is a good dad as long as he is not sick or tired or angry. Then he ignores her or gets very annoyed with her. I don't think that's unusual, but then again, our perceptions of what is normal are based on our experiences. The worst thing he does is verbally abusing me and/or fighting with me in front of her. He just does not get that that is totally unacceptable.
Our is a strange situation. I've studied psychology, and neither of us is what one would call "normal." I tend to dissociate myself and my emotions from conflict and negativity and overanalyze. He has all the symptoms of a borderline personality. He is very emotionally dependent on me, while I am self-contained. I think a lot of his anger and negativity are caused by his feelings of inferiority and frustration. Those feelings seem to be his natural response to anything that goes wrong.
There are so many factors that play a part in my situation... It's complicated, and too personal to go into on a public message board. I'm sorry that I haven't messaged everyone back, but it's hard to know what to say to people that I don't know.
To answer some questions, I am not religious, although I did attend a very conservative Christian school for 11 years. I have had some counseling, but not for a few months now. Things were going okay until we lost a renter, the housing market crashed, and my husbands industry slowed down significantly.
When I say that my husband is a good father most of the time, I mean to say that he loves our daughter, and she loves him. He is a good dad as long as he is not sick or tired or angry. Then he ignores her or gets very annoyed with her. I don't think that's unusual, but then again, our perceptions of what is normal are based on our experiences. The worst thing he does is verbally abusing me and/or fighting with me in front of her. He just does not get that that is totally unacceptable.
Our is a strange situation. I've studied psychology, and neither of us is what one would call "normal." I tend to dissociate myself and my emotions from conflict and negativity and overanalyze. He has all the symptoms of a borderline personality. He is very emotionally dependent on me, while I am self-contained. I think a lot of his anger and negativity are caused by his feelings of inferiority and frustration. Those feelings seem to be his natural response to anything that goes wrong.
There are so many factors that play a part in my situation... It's complicated, and too personal to go into on a public message board. I'm sorry that I haven't messaged everyone back, but it's hard to know what to say to people that I don't know.
It's true LighteningBolt, none of live in your situation, none of know what he is like or what you are like and none of us live in your situation--everyone is just showing how much they care and some of what they have been through. Usually, what a person has lived through is so hurtful that it is hard for them to see others in the same types of situations and certainly we give our opinions on how we feel and they are honest opinions.
I stayed with my ex for 25 yrs for because I felt kids should have both parents together, would I do it again--no. I thought I was doing the right thing for the kids and now, at least once a week I get a reminder from one of my 5 kids reminding me why I made a mistake staying. He wasn't physically abusive, but I have always felt mentally abusive is much worse--bruises heal--words can't be taken back and the words behind the bruises can't be taken back.
I have many fears and for years I couldn't understand where these fears came from because I had blocked there bases. One huge fear I will explain so you can understand what I mean. I am terrified of mice and rats. TERRIFIED, to the point of not being able to breathe. When I was a child, I remember coming across a nest of baby mice and trying to save them, so I know I used to handle them, so I could not understand why I became so terrified. Then a few years back I was talking to my boyfriend and some memories came back. Little things, like mice in my home and them running and spooking me, me screaming and my ex berating me for being afraid, telling me I was scaring my kids for nothing. We had a rat get into the bathroom and I was so scared, he caught the rat, and I shut myself in the bedroom until he took it out of the house, but he trapped me in the bedroom, holding the rat outside the door for some time, laughing. One time, he threw a dead muskrat at me, it landed at my feet and you know I almost fell trying to get away. Once, as I was driving down a country road, doing about 25 mph, he says to me, "Now don't panic, but there is a mouse by your foot", honest to God, I couldn't stop that car fast enough to get out. He thought it was so funny. He didn't see any cruelty in any of it, he always thought it was so funny and for years I blocked all of that. I have a horrible fear of mice, rats, possums, any of those types of critters now and I actually can not breathe when I see them. It's terrible what another person can do to our minds!
Once he was preparing a car for the junk yard, he came in and sat down to watch tv. I looked outside and I saw one son standing about 30 feet from the car and one son standing right beside the car and I thought nothing of it until I saw flames shoot up and the son next to the car was totally enclosed in the flames. I ran screaming outside and of course I ran for the hose. My oldest is screaming, "Mom, not water, it's a gas fire!" I just knew my baby was on fire and I had to get him out. Thank God, he wasn't on fire, it just looked that way from the window. My ex had them pumping the gas out of the car using the ignition--it's a long story and a foolish one and to this day, I have not forgiven him for that one.
He never felt he did anything wrong. We have been divorced now for 9 years and he still doesn't think there was anything wrong with our marriage, he thinks it was all me. To be honest, he would take me back in a minute.
It's very easy to think everything is ok while you are living it. Sometimes, we do not realize what is going on in our lives until we have time to sit back and evaluate what actually is going on or has gone on.
I hope everything works out for you and your family.
I stayed with my ex for 25 yrs for because I felt kids should have both parents together, would I do it again--no. I thought I was doing the right thing for the kids and now, at least once a week I get a reminder from one of my 5 kids reminding me why I made a mistake staying. He wasn't physically abusive, but I have always felt mentally abusive is much worse--bruises heal--words can't be taken back and the words behind the bruises can't be taken back.
I have many fears and for years I couldn't understand where these fears came from because I had blocked there bases. One huge fear I will explain so you can understand what I mean. I am terrified of mice and rats. TERRIFIED, to the point of not being able to breathe. When I was a child, I remember coming across a nest of baby mice and trying to save them, so I know I used to handle them, so I could not understand why I became so terrified. Then a few years back I was talking to my boyfriend and some memories came back. Little things, like mice in my home and them running and spooking me, me screaming and my ex berating me for being afraid, telling me I was scaring my kids for nothing. We had a rat get into the bathroom and I was so scared, he caught the rat, and I shut myself in the bedroom until he took it out of the house, but he trapped me in the bedroom, holding the rat outside the door for some time, laughing. One time, he threw a dead muskrat at me, it landed at my feet and you know I almost fell trying to get away. Once, as I was driving down a country road, doing about 25 mph, he says to me, "Now don't panic, but there is a mouse by your foot", honest to God, I couldn't stop that car fast enough to get out. He thought it was so funny. He didn't see any cruelty in any of it, he always thought it was so funny and for years I blocked all of that. I have a horrible fear of mice, rats, possums, any of those types of critters now and I actually can not breathe when I see them. It's terrible what another person can do to our minds!
Once he was preparing a car for the junk yard, he came in and sat down to watch tv. I looked outside and I saw one son standing about 30 feet from the car and one son standing right beside the car and I thought nothing of it until I saw flames shoot up and the son next to the car was totally enclosed in the flames. I ran screaming outside and of course I ran for the hose. My oldest is screaming, "Mom, not water, it's a gas fire!" I just knew my baby was on fire and I had to get him out. Thank God, he wasn't on fire, it just looked that way from the window. My ex had them pumping the gas out of the car using the ignition--it's a long story and a foolish one and to this day, I have not forgiven him for that one.
He never felt he did anything wrong. We have been divorced now for 9 years and he still doesn't think there was anything wrong with our marriage, he thinks it was all me. To be honest, he would take me back in a minute.
It's very easy to think everything is ok while you are living it. Sometimes, we do not realize what is going on in our lives until we have time to sit back and evaluate what actually is going on or has gone on.
I hope everything works out for you and your family.
i'm so glad to see that you are an intelligent and well educated gal. i'm sure all of the words of caution here are merely because we all have had our experiences and wouldn't want to see ANYONE relive them, whether we know them or not.
my ex would pick arguments with me, criticize me endlessly... follow me into the bathroom where i could never believe such a strong woman like me would choose to go and cry. he would yell at me and beat on the door. then there was the name calling. i was stupid. illogical. irrational. over-emotional. this was almost a daily occurrence. he tore me down bit by bit. he fell in love with me because i was a strong woman, then he seemed to need to destroy that in me. he would do this in front of the baby and think nothing of it. the rage and his inability to control himself were terrifying. it's funny how my emotion of hurt and despair seemed unwarrented in his eyes but he couldn't view rage as an emotion or even one that needed to be reigned in. not funny "ha ha" but funny -- horribly sad.
when my daughter was 18 months old i went from living in a condo i owned, being a stay at home mom and house-wife with a vehicle to being a single mom on welfare with nothing. and to tell you the truth, i hadn't been happier in 6 years. the peace was incredible. i knew i could NOT have him teach her how a woman should be treated.
he never did understand why i left and to this day still carries an incredible amount of anger towards me for leaving him. he has since remarried and that anger at my leaving is still as strong as the day i left.
sounds like your husband is doing some leveling. he feels inferior. he has to make you feel too bad to ever feel like you deserve more or better. there is hope that you can talk him into some councelling. he is probably not a bad guy but more a guy with bad coping skills.
good luck and keep us posted. i'm rooting for you.
my ex would pick arguments with me, criticize me endlessly... follow me into the bathroom where i could never believe such a strong woman like me would choose to go and cry. he would yell at me and beat on the door. then there was the name calling. i was stupid. illogical. irrational. over-emotional. this was almost a daily occurrence. he tore me down bit by bit. he fell in love with me because i was a strong woman, then he seemed to need to destroy that in me. he would do this in front of the baby and think nothing of it. the rage and his inability to control himself were terrifying. it's funny how my emotion of hurt and despair seemed unwarrented in his eyes but he couldn't view rage as an emotion or even one that needed to be reigned in. not funny "ha ha" but funny -- horribly sad.
when my daughter was 18 months old i went from living in a condo i owned, being a stay at home mom and house-wife with a vehicle to being a single mom on welfare with nothing. and to tell you the truth, i hadn't been happier in 6 years. the peace was incredible. i knew i could NOT have him teach her how a woman should be treated.
he never did understand why i left and to this day still carries an incredible amount of anger towards me for leaving him. he has since remarried and that anger at my leaving is still as strong as the day i left.
sounds like your husband is doing some leveling. he feels inferior. he has to make you feel too bad to ever feel like you deserve more or better. there is hope that you can talk him into some councelling. he is probably not a bad guy but more a guy with bad coping skills.
good luck and keep us posted. i'm rooting for you.
It sounds like you're doing ok right now which I'm happy about. But I am still concerned. 5% of the time still doesn't make things ok. Financial problems make life stressful, but it is not an excuse for abuse. My worry is 5% will turn into 10% which will turn into 25%, etc. It sounds a little bit like you are trying to justify his behavior. The fact that you no longer auto-logon to this site worries me, too. It seems like deep down you are worried. Sorry if I've gotten this wrong, I'm just trying to state my impression of the situation.
QUOTE (p38lightningbolt @ Oct 14 2007, 04:48 AM)
He is a good dad as long as he is not sick or tired or angry. Then he ignores her or gets very annoyed with her. I don't think that's unusual, but then again, our perceptions of what is normal are based on our experiences. .
I'm sure that he loves her, and that he loves you, too. But that doesn't justify abuse.
Ignoring a 2-year-old or getting very annoyed with a 2-year-old is not good parenting, period.
As to whether it's usual--look at any inner-city bus stop, and you'll see lots of low-income moms, snapping at their babies for crying, or even hitting them, or else just ignoring them. Some high income parents do this, too, I'm sure--but they're not at bus stops. (I work downtown, and see this happen pretty much every day.)
When we think of "abuse," we assume that it's a constant thing--but it's not. It starts out as a very occasional thing.
As far as personal experience goes, I cannot remember my own father EVER being unkind to me. EVER. And my husband has never been unkind to our children. EVER. This doesn't mean that we don't get frustrated occasionally, but NEVER at a 2-year-old.
I do apologize here, because I'm afraid that it's going to feel like we are attacking you and/or your husband here. But we are just all very concerned for your safety and for the safety of your little one. It does sound like you are extremely intelligent and caring.
I think we have all either been in a position where we have either justified someone's behavior that we knew was wrong, or justified our own decision to remain in a bad situation--and then regretted it.
I understand that your situation is complicated and personal, and no one on a message board is going to be able to even approach understanding it all...but I would like to tell you a few things.
Firstly, concerning your daughter. Every 2 year old loves her parents (ie, the people she lives with and spends time with). It's biologically programmed in, it's impossible not to. Even if one of the parents is actually physically abusive, a child of that age is still attached. Kids that age have absolutely no concept of relationships/attachments outside of their experience...that is why the lessons they learn from their parents about healthy relationships at that age are so crucial. My husband's dad was very abusive and my husband now hates him, but when he was a kid he loved him to death, he looked up to him, he wanted to be like him. When family services got sent to the house, he defended his father up and down, even while his dad was making the lives of everyone in the house a living hell. Not until his mother finally got out of there when he was 12, did the attachment begin to fade and even so it took a lot of counseling to even start to begin to unlearn the abusive behaviours he learned in that home. How much better off would he have been if his mother had left 10 years earlier? Immensely, even though if you had asked him at that age if he wanted to leave his daddy he would have emphatically said no.
As for your husband's feelings towards her, they're just as biologically programmed. Parents can't help loving their children, especially when they're small and cute. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are good for them, though, and it doesn't mean that his behaviour towards her won't deterioriate as she gets older.
And let me tell you, the fact that he fights with you (and in such a denigrating way) in front of her is something I see as the WORST thing a parent can do for a child, worse IMHO even that physical abuse. The job of parents is to insulate their children from the worst things in the real world until that child is mature enough to deal with them herself. Every kid I have seen that is the product of a screwed up household, I think that is the reason why they are so screwed up...even if the abuse only goes on between the adults, the children see and it teaches them that the world is a scary place, not the lesson they need to be learning at that age. Parents are supposed to create a safe place for their children to develop in.
Only you know your situation, only you can make the final decision. Keep in mind, though, you don't necessarily have to decide, "ok, I'm getting a divorce." There are smaller steps you can take, like leaving the house until he agrees to counseling. You need to make him understand that these things are truly problems and get him to work on them before anything will improve. Otherwise, the only directions he's likely to go are straight or down.
Also, I empathize with him being emotionally dependent and you being self-contained. That is me and my husband to a T, and goodness knows we fight. Both of us are really weird and he's obviously messed up with his past. But he's never threatened me and he actually cares about my health and well-being. Being weird or messed up does not make abuse OK. If your husband is doing these things about your diet, it certainly does not seem like he truly cares about you. Buying you flowers or whatever and being nice to you when he's in a good mood isn't indicative of true caring, taking care of you when you're sick and trying to control his negative feelings for the sake of you and your child is. Almost all marriages start with two people who love each other and treat each other half-way decently when everything's going well, that's why people chose to get married; but it's how things work when things get tough that really matter. I don't believe in divorce either, but that's only a statement that I can make because my husband is not abusive and/or we do not have children.
Firstly, concerning your daughter. Every 2 year old loves her parents (ie, the people she lives with and spends time with). It's biologically programmed in, it's impossible not to. Even if one of the parents is actually physically abusive, a child of that age is still attached. Kids that age have absolutely no concept of relationships/attachments outside of their experience...that is why the lessons they learn from their parents about healthy relationships at that age are so crucial. My husband's dad was very abusive and my husband now hates him, but when he was a kid he loved him to death, he looked up to him, he wanted to be like him. When family services got sent to the house, he defended his father up and down, even while his dad was making the lives of everyone in the house a living hell. Not until his mother finally got out of there when he was 12, did the attachment begin to fade and even so it took a lot of counseling to even start to begin to unlearn the abusive behaviours he learned in that home. How much better off would he have been if his mother had left 10 years earlier? Immensely, even though if you had asked him at that age if he wanted to leave his daddy he would have emphatically said no.
As for your husband's feelings towards her, they're just as biologically programmed. Parents can't help loving their children, especially when they're small and cute. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are good for them, though, and it doesn't mean that his behaviour towards her won't deterioriate as she gets older.
And let me tell you, the fact that he fights with you (and in such a denigrating way) in front of her is something I see as the WORST thing a parent can do for a child, worse IMHO even that physical abuse. The job of parents is to insulate their children from the worst things in the real world until that child is mature enough to deal with them herself. Every kid I have seen that is the product of a screwed up household, I think that is the reason why they are so screwed up...even if the abuse only goes on between the adults, the children see and it teaches them that the world is a scary place, not the lesson they need to be learning at that age. Parents are supposed to create a safe place for their children to develop in.
Only you know your situation, only you can make the final decision. Keep in mind, though, you don't necessarily have to decide, "ok, I'm getting a divorce." There are smaller steps you can take, like leaving the house until he agrees to counseling. You need to make him understand that these things are truly problems and get him to work on them before anything will improve. Otherwise, the only directions he's likely to go are straight or down.
Also, I empathize with him being emotionally dependent and you being self-contained. That is me and my husband to a T, and goodness knows we fight. Both of us are really weird and he's obviously messed up with his past. But he's never threatened me and he actually cares about my health and well-being. Being weird or messed up does not make abuse OK. If your husband is doing these things about your diet, it certainly does not seem like he truly cares about you. Buying you flowers or whatever and being nice to you when he's in a good mood isn't indicative of true caring, taking care of you when you're sick and trying to control his negative feelings for the sake of you and your child is. Almost all marriages start with two people who love each other and treat each other half-way decently when everything's going well, that's why people chose to get married; but it's how things work when things get tough that really matter. I don't believe in divorce either, but that's only a statement that I can make because my husband is not abusive and/or we do not have children.
QUOTE (darlindeb25 @ Oct 14 2007, 07:16 AM)
I have many fears and for years I couldn't understand where these fears came from because I had blocked there bases. One huge fear I will explain so you can understand what I mean. I am terrified of mice and rats. TERRIFIED, to the point of not being able to breathe. When I was a child, I remember coming across a nest of baby mice and trying to save them, so I know I used to handle them, so I could not understand why I became so terrified. Then a few years back I was talking to my boyfriend and some memories came back. Little things, like mice in my home and them running and spooking me, me screaming and my ex berating me for being afraid, telling me I was scaring my kids for nothing. We had a rat get into the bathroom and I was so scared, he caught the rat, and I shut myself in the bedroom until he took it out of the house, but he trapped me in the bedroom, holding the rat outside the door for some time, laughing. One time, he threw a dead muskrat at me, it landed at my feet and you know I almost fell trying to get away. Once, as I was driving down a country road, doing about 25 mph, he says to me, "Now don't panic, but there is a mouse by your foot", honest to God, I couldn't stop that car fast enough to get out. He thought it was so funny. He didn't see any cruelty in any of it, he always thought it was so funny and for years I blocked all of that. I have a horrible fear of mice, rats, possums, any of those types of critters now and I actually can not breathe when I see them. It's terrible what another person can do to our minds!
He never felt he did anything wrong. We have been divorced now for 9 years and he still doesn't think there was anything wrong with our marriage, he thinks it was all me. To be honest, he would take me back in a minute.
He never felt he did anything wrong. We have been divorced now for 9 years and he still doesn't think there was anything wrong with our marriage, he thinks it was all me. To be honest, he would take me back in a minute.
This is the problem with abusive people....they just don't see that what they are doing is wrong. It's like they have no empathy. And that's why some of them never get better, and certainly why you can't count on the situation to just resolve itself. My husband tells stories about his dad, like how they would be driving home from school and they would play this game where his dad would hold his hand above my husbands leg and tell him to try and slap it really hard before it moved...invariably he would end up slapping his leg, but he couldn't not do it or slap less hard because his dad would get mad. Or how his dad would tickle him and it would be hurting and digging into his muscles, but he still couldn't stop laughing. Things like this give him nightmares. His dad probably had fond memories of it, time spent playing with his child. Any non-abusive parent would think, "my child does not like this, maybe I should stop." Abusive parents either don't notice or care more about their own enjoyment.
And he was the same after the divorce....his ex-wife is terrified even of a mention of his name, he on the other hand sent her a 25 year anniversary card years after they had been divorced. When we saw him 3 years ago, he kept saying "let's not talk about the past" whenever my husband wanted to talk about some crappy abuse thing, but what he actually wanted to talk about was why my husband thought his wife left him. He just doesn't get it. 20 years later he's still obsessed with her. He actually invited her to come stay at his vacation home, he accidentally called his girlfriend by her name while we were there. He probably thinks this is how you love someone. I just don't know how people get so screwed up. It's sad. No abusive person is a complete devil, they've usually got some good qualities, it just makes you wonder what went wrong with them.